Did God kill Jesus?

I was interested in Peter Kirk's comment on the article Punished in our place and have been pondering the objection to the blatant assertion that God killed Jesus.

I'm wondering if an understanding of the bible's teaching about the trinity and the sovereignty of God might be helpful on this one. I agree that the bible usually says that God planned for Jesus to die in our place, and does not blatantly use the exact words "God killed Jesus."

But if Father, Son and Holy Spirit planned the atonement in eternity, if Jesus offered his life willingly and if God is in control of everything, it would seem to me to somewhat neutralise objections to this concept.

Sitting in church this morning, the story of Joseph popped into my head and I was reminded that Joseph blatantly says to his brothers who had sold him as a slave

... do not be angry with yourselves for selling me here, because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you ... So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. Genesis 45 And in Genesis 50 Joseph says: 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.

While the bible may not use the ipsissima verba, the concept would seem to be found there. I think this needs to be nuanced in such a way that we understand that God is using the actions of evil men for his own purposes, it was his grand plan,and I think it would be proper to say to the chief priests and scribes and Herod and the others "It was not you who took Christ and crucified him, but God. You intended to kill the prince of glory, but God intended it for good to accomplish the saving of many lives."


Joseph's statement did not absolve his brothers from being responsible for their evil activity and such a statement to those who took Christ and put him to death would also not free them from being held accountable for killing the Son of God.

I appreciate the comments that have been made on this topic concerning exercising the same restraint which the bible uses, but think that if you consider all of the biblical material on the atonement, some pretty strong statements are made there. We should not go beyond Scripture, but I think the analogy with the story of Joseph is a useful one to ponder.

By Faith Alone

When I downloaded the My Bible program for my new Palm Z22 handheld this morning, I also downloaded three bible translations which I frequently use and By Faith Alone, which is James Galvin's compilation of 365 devotional thoughts by Martin Luther. I've enjoyed the first entry: the program is clever enough to make Day One 19th January, the day I first opened the program.

But I don't think I can copy from the text and download it into a memo and then plonk it in my computer next time I do a hotsync, which is a bummer.

The first reading is called Faith Comes First and is a good representation of Luther's teaching about faith and works. I liked this comment:

Some people value good works so much that they overlook faith in Christ. They preach about and praise their own works instead of God's works.
Faith should be first. After faith is preached, then we should teach about good works. It is faith - without good works and prior to good works - that takes us to heaven. We come to God through faith alone.

What bible versions did I download? The demo version of the program, which I used to try it out included the venerable,but increasingly archaic King James Version. I added the TNIV, the ESV and the NLT. I'm using the TNIV for memorisation, and am pelased to have the other versions available on my organiser [can't bring myself to call it a pda as it sounds too American, if I may say so.

Fast or Slow?

I have been reading the bible through quickly, and have found it to be a great way of seeing the big picture, and also reading it slowly, by memorising a verse or two per day, and then meditating on those verses, as I struggle to remember them!

In my fast read-through, I try to finish a bible book in a few days [except for Psalms and Proverbs, which lend themselves to a slower approach, I think]. This time round I've read:

Old Testament
the first 5 books [known as the Torah, or Pentateuch or Law, whatever you prefer] Chronicles
Job
Proverbs
Isaiah, Jeremiah and several minor prophets

New Testament
Matthew, Mark and Luke [known as the Synoptic Gospels, because you can put them side by side in a parallel setup to observe similarities and differences]
Romans
1 Corinthians
Galatians
1 and 2 Timothy and Titus [known as the Pastoral Epistles]
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 and 2 Peter
1, 2 and 3 John
and
Jude

So I still have about 30% to do, which I hope to complete by the end of March; maybe earlier

But I'm also memorising Hebrews, following in Ryan Ferguson's footsteps. So far, I'm up to chapter 3, verse 3, having begun on 6th December. I don't know if I'm up to doing the whole shebang, but it has been an exciting adventure, thus far.

It helps to make me concentrate on the details, and also to see little motifs in the first few verses that are developed later in this exhortation. I previously memorised Philemon, 2 John and 1 Peter, chapters 1 and 2, but am sorry to say I have now lost them. But I learnt a lot while I was doing this, and came to appreciate them in a new way. Maybe one day I could review them.

Is there an intermediate state?

What happens when a Christian dies? Do we sleep in the ground until the general resurrection, or do we go to be with Christ immediately? Steve Lehrer has written a thought-provoking article on this topic that is well worth reading. I'm looking forward to the follow-up one, which is already online at In-Depth Studies.

Punished in our Place

In this article, Gary Williams interacts with Steve Chalke's negative view of Penal Substitution. Chalke had expressed the view that the idea of Christ suffering in our place smacks of cosmic child abuse.

Williams clearly shows that Chalke has misunderstood this teaching, has not realised that it was the view of many in the Early Church and that is not a creation of the Reformers. He also points out that the doctrine of the trinity safeguards the bible's teaching on the atonement, because it shows us that Christ's suffering and death were planned by all 3 members of the trinity: it was not imposed on an unwilling victim.

The Zondervan Archaeological Study Bible

A friend got me started on reading through the New Testament, which whetted my appetite for reading through the Old Testament and then the whole bible, which I did first time round using the ESV Reformation Study Bible, a terrific theological resource.

I'm now reading through again using this Zondervan Archaeological Study Bible, and finding it a great help to understanding the world of the bible, the cultures, history and to a lesser extent, geography. [I find it hard to make sense of all those unfamiliar place names, despite the quality maps in the back of this bible.]

Like other reviewers, I'm sorry the editors did not use the TNIV, but the NIV is still an excellent translation, merely needing a little tinkering with here and there, as was done by the TNIV translators.

The only text I find too small is the small font used for identifying verse numbers and footnotes, but the rest of the text is fine, for these eyes.

I think every bible reader would benefit from using this study bible for learning more about the background of the times and places where the biblical books were written, but a theological resource such as the ESV Reformation Study Bible is also a great help for understanding the unifying message of the bible.